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Kommentare The peculiar case of yaoi hate

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  • In the shortest way of saying, coming from an nblm, its uncomfortable to be seen as a fetish or taboo. It's exactly like how wlw/nblw are seen as a living porn display by straight men.
    Im aware there is people who don't harass or fetishize us, but it just isn't a nice thought of "Do they see me as a normal human, or am I just a living exhibit?" when interacting with non-mlm/nblm who consume yaoi/BL.

    Consume yaoi/BL if you want, but don't be shocked if mlm/nblm ask you to stay away from them for their own comfort. There's already history of us being seen as sexual deviants, being seen as a fetish/taboo is the same.
    Vor 1 Monat
    Yuri was made by WLW/NBLW for WLW/NBLW. Yaoi was made by straight women for straight women to enjoy and encourages specific stereotypes that harmful to the LGBT community. Gay men have expressed discomfort with it for years. If they say it's fetishization, it is, and unless you are MLM/NBLM it's not your decision to make.
    Vor 1 Monat
    sarahmad13Vor 1 Monat#97912392snip

    … which was why i linked the third article in my comment which addresses just that. lol And no, I do not repeat behaviors or speech from shows or manga. The only thing I MAY take away into my daily life would be philosophical theories or life lessons (for example, I really love learning about physics & the possibility of multiverses and Bioshock Infinite revived my interest in such a difficult subject). I understand your point, but just not that everyone should have to self-reflect on what or how they consume a genre of fiction since it’s a form of escapism. Hope that cleared anything up.
    Vor 1 Monat
    GabVor 1 Monat#97923220I like yaoi but I'm aware that it's problematic in many ways, some aspects do have to change. Still, most people who criticize it are straight men who watch/read way worse hentai. I read a post once on a popular manga blog from my country which was basically complaining about how yaoi fans ship characters that aren't gay in the source media, in a very angry way. At the same time, we see so many male otaku going like "rule 34, there's porn of everything, you can't help it" to justify an innocent (perhaps even underage) female character being portrayed in porn or very sexualized fanart. It seems like double standards to me, because porn made by women, for women and without regarding what men want is subversive.

    I would actually argue the opposite. As someone who’s part of the LGBTQIA+ community, I’ve seen more of us criticizing yaoi and yuri compared to cishet men. However, I will also say that there are definitely some male weebs who will protest anything that isn’t made for them. Case in example: Free. I think it’s just very frustrating for people like us when we try to say that yaoi/yuri can be harmful. We’re not telling people to not read it, but just asking for people acknowledge that yaoi/yuri can cause some harmful stereotypes/fetishization to those in the community.
    Vor 1 Monat
    I think this article has some good discussion going on. I've been reading bl manwhas recently and I read yaoi doujinshi, so I would definitely call myself a fan. However, there are some criticisms I do find valid, mainly the rape and manipulation that plagues some titles and the infamous "I'm not gay but-" troupe (I used to be critical seme/uke roles too but let men be feminine in their relationships!) People who also ship real life celebrities and ask gross personal questions to gay men like they're animals at a zoo are the worst. I can see how this would turn people, mostly LGBTQ people, away and voice their dislike.

    That being said, I think there is a heavy policing on women majority hobbies. A lot of homophobes jump in on the criticism as well and feel a lil' too comfortable doing so since criticizing NSFW media seems to be the hottest thing to do right now. Also plenty of LGBTQ people read yaoi and I want people stop acting like we don't. Yaoi, despite all its flaws, is one of the reasons I legitimately began to accept myself as queer.
    Vor 1 Monat
    I like yaoi but I'm aware that it's problematic in many ways, some aspects do have to change. Still, most people who criticize it are straight men who watch/read way worse hentai. I read a post once on a popular manga blog from my country which was basically complaining about how yaoi fans ship characters that aren't gay in the source media, in a very angry way. At the same time, we see so many male otaku going like "rule 34, there's porn of everything, you can't help it" to justify an innocent (perhaps even underage) female character being portrayed in porn or very sexualized fanart. It seems like double standards to me, because porn made by women, for women and without regarding what men want is subversive.
    Vor 1 Monat
    This is one of the most interesting discussions I've seen on here in a while. It's great how civilized everyone's being right now. It's definitely an issue that the anime community and fandom as a whole should be discussing in this manner. I will admit that I mostly came here hoping for good examples of BL stories because I have a hard time finding them.
    Vor 1 Monat
    I do agree with most points coming from you and I like that you are not looking at this topic from a subjective perspective.

    Coming from a het woman, I could just put my opinions as simple as this (ofc, by the things I have seen and experienced)

    - most yaoi haters are het guys who are simply disgusted with it more than het women are disgusted in yuri. Its more of a way of human mentality. (I have a neutral look on yuri, I don't hate it)
    - ofc yaoi isn't a realistic representation of gay relationships, that's the basic point of "fiction" - yaoi ain't a documentary. Same goes for yuri.

    - I do believe a lot of yaoi is fetishizing. And - yaoi is basically gay p**n in drawing form. P**n is fetishizing and most of the yaoi (especially doujins, one shots...) is meant to serve that use as its not plot driven. Ofc - I'm referring just to these "fiction" works. I would never fetishize a real life gay relationship as I'm not doing to the het ones.
    Vor 1 Monat
    I don't have a say in this topic, so I apologize for being a bit off-topic. But for real, is Macklemore still making music?
    Vor 1 Monat
    mandu420Vor 1 Monat#97922461Not looking to write a whole ass essay on this topic like I did in the past, but I'll sum up what I think.
    1) A good chunk of yaoi is fetishization. As someone who reads both yaoi and yuri I can say it with a fact that it definitely seems more prominent with yaoi. As for the more problematic stuff, there are clear differences. With yuri readers it's more like lesbians are sexy type beat, while with yaoi it's "wow two male guy friends are close so they are clearly gay".
    2) Shipping real people is definitely a bigger problem with yaoi fans and not to be rude, but you guys arguably have the worst fandom out there. I hate trying to argue with fujoshis, it's like taking to a brick wall. I once put that Killing Stalking was bad on a manga forum and got a lot of private messages + 2 death threats (seriously what is wrong with you guys).
    3) There is also a lot of rape in yaoi. A lot. Of course it's in hentai as well, but if we're going to compare this with Yuri, it has way more imo. Especially with the more "normal" stories that's not like two chapters of just porn.
    4) I would also like to say it's so fucking annoying when cishet women enjoy yaoi but hate bisexuals and lesbians. A lot of fujoshis only like the the G in the LGBTQIA+ and whenever something HINTS at a main lead being bisexual the comments are filled with hate. Also you don't see Yuri readers looking at characters and thinking "that is my uwu power bottom gay". Yeah. Anyways that's my take on this, and remember that we are all entitled to our own opinions at the end of the day.
    As a bisexual man I tried to get into BL looking for a good romance. I tried a few recommendations and I think that the points 1 and 3 were in all of them.

    My particular issues with this genre are:
    - Sexualization and/or romanticization of sexual and psychological abuse.
    - This thing of "becoming gay or bisexual". At least one of the boys is usually defined as straight or maybe both but they become gay later. Also the thing "you are so pretty that I don't mind that you are a boy". Today it is strange not to have realized before (possible but rare) and its used as a fetish.
    - That sensitive guy/rude guy duality, feminine/masculine , uke/seme... gives me "which one is the woman?" vibes

    As I said I just tried a few recommendations but I was said that were relly good, so probably works without those issues exist. I'm not talking about the famdom because I don't know it.

    My conclusion was that BL is a product only aimed at people with some specific fetishes (mainly cisheterosexual women). I don't know if I would call it homophobic but it'll probably make you feel uncomfortable if you are gay. More diversity could fix this but again, gay or bisexual man its not the main target of this
    Vor 1 Monat
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